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Re: Where's your panic room? :D

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:57 am
by TheBigcheese42
Personally, I think the concept of Home Defense will be greatly improved upon with the addition of different Hideouts (or at least a randomly generated one to start with) coupled with more mechanics and different things to do at night.

Something like the ability to construct furniture that we can use to further barricade an area, or something along those lines. The most creative I've ever gotten with my house was to lead several dogs (using the animal friendship perk ofc ((Permadeath Master-race)) and locking them in the North room to fend off any creatures that tried to get in.

Being a dog lover and a big softy when it comes to animals in general, I felt pangs of suicidal grief when I heard every dog give off their death moan within 3 seconds of eachother.

I'm more of a monster than anything in Darkwood could ever be :'(

Re: Where's your panic room? :D

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:21 pm
by Gustaw
Yeah, nights need to be overhauled. We've not anticipated that people would play the alpha for dozens of hours... We thought that 2-3 hours would be top for the alpha version, hence the mid-game nights can become tedious. We're watching the streams and reading posts, and making the nights exciting in the long run will most probably be a priority in alpha 2.

Re: Where's your panic room? :D

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:00 pm
by neko
Gustaw wrote:Yeah, nights need to be overhauled. We've not anticipated that people would play the alpha for dozens of hours... We thought that 2-3 hours would be top for the alpha version, hence the mid-game nights can become tedious. We're watching the streams and reading posts, and making the nights exciting in the long run will most probably be a priority in alpha 2.
im really glad you guys are already on this, im going to label the next bit as a bit of **SPOILER** if you havent been past day 10.
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The Chompers, these guys need a looking at, after night 10 or so they start turning up at your door, unlike the other monsters who only go after movement and noise, they dont give a damn if the lights are on or your in the dark not moving, they just make a beeline for you, breaking down any barricade in their way.

If you are playing with perma on and havent got a solid weapon or traps by then you are pretty doomed, barring the wardrobe expoit, if you are playing with perma off then it becomes a tedious bore dealing with them or securing the base after a night of their relentless attacks (they absolutely muller barricades).

it got to the point for me where i was like f*** it and just stood outside to die rather than have them wreak my hideout.

If you are wondering why im so far in im having serious issues trying to find the bloody violinists house.

Its in stark contrast to the first few nights where i was hiding, terrified of the monsters lurking outside, trying not to make a sound for fear of attracting them.

Another sore point is returning to my secure hideout on earlier nights to find SURPRISE monsters in my house with no sign how the hell they got inside, having a dog maul me as i walked through the front door was a little irritating, especially given they cant open doors and all the windows were barricaded.

it would be much cooler if you found signs of forced entry to indicate a potential monster inside.

As to the issue of escalation after a certain number of nights introducing more difficult monsters such as the chompers, you want that feeling of dread that happens during those first nights.

Firstly they need to have avoidable means of detection, it feels cheap when you are in the middle of your house in the dark making no noise and they start breaking in at the nearest door or window.

To counteract the player just sitting there still in the dark you need something that makes the player have to risk moving around the hideout at night, something to push them to take higher and higher risks but still allowing them to chose the time in the night to take those risks.

Re: Where's your panic room? :D

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:37 pm
by Nenjin
The Chompers, these guys need a looking at, after night 10 or so they start turning up at your door, unlike the other monsters who only go after movement and noise, they dont give a damn if the lights are on or your in the dark not moving, they just make a beeline for you, breaking down any barricade in their way.

If you are playing with perma on and havent got a solid weapon or traps by then you are pretty doomed, barring the wardrobe expoit, if you are playing with perma off then it becomes a tedious bore dealing with them or securing the base after a night of their relentless attacks (they absolutely muller barricades).
Agreed. When Home Defense at first feels like it's important to manage light and sound, that player choice matters, you're thinking "Cool!" Then the Chompers show up, and nothing you do or don't do seems to matter. If Home Defense is going to be fun, it has to be manageable. What the player does has to matter in some regard on whether monsters notice the house or try to enter.
Another sore point is returning to my secure hideout on earlier nights to find SURPRISE monsters in my house with no sign how the hell they got inside, having a dog maul me as i walked through the front door was a little irritating, especially given they cant open doors and all the windows were barricaded.
This I disagree with though. I like that the player's house isn't sacred. I do agree that if they're inside, they should have had to broken a barricade or door. But coming home to find a savage in my house scared the absolute shit out of me the first time, and it made me think that if they'd tried to steal all the goods stockpiled on the floor, I'd have dozens of reasons not only to fear them, but hate them too. And that's what you want in a game like this: enemies with personality. When they're just mooks circling the house or ambling around the woods, they don't have as much personality. When they're invading your home and ambushing you least expect it....those are enemies a body learns to hate, in a good, gameplay-affirming way.
Yeah, nights need to be overhauled. We've not anticipated that people would play the alpha for dozens of hours... We thought that 2-3 hours would be top for the alpha version....
Victims of your own success, I guess. Where a lot of turn-based games get that "Just one more turn..." level of addiction, Darkwood definitely has that "Just one more day...." addictiveness.

Re: Where's your panic room? :D

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:08 pm
by neko
savages are fine in that they can actually open doors, and all monsters are fine getting if you have unbarricaded windows, it was coming home to find a dog in my living room with no evidence as to how it got through a closed door and barricaded windows.

That being said it would be nice if windows actually opened and closed rather than the player and monsters simply jumping through them.

I'm all for the hideout not being a safe haven, what im gunning for is if something breaks in or gets in for it to leave some clue or evidence for the player if they are taking notice to pick up on, getting ganked without some kind of (even subtle) warning isnt fun, especially in a permadeath situation.

Re: Where's your panic room? :D

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:28 pm
by Nenjin
What might have happened is the game just spawned the dog in there, rather than it somehow magically pathed through closed doors and barricaded windows. In that case, I fully agree that the player's house should be a no-spawn zone. I've not actually experience that though. All intruders were either in the large room with the opening in the wall, or there were open doors/windows to allow them in.

Related but not directly related, things should make noise when they come through the windows, just like the player does. It's weird to hear a monster clearly distant in the night, and the next instant you hear them right next to you. There needs to be an audible cue that they've moved through a window, even the "th-thump" of their feet (claws, pseudopods, w/e) hitting the floor would be acceptable.

Also, maybe this is just me and a bug, maybe this is Acid Wizard fucking with me, but there have been times I've been standing stock still in the house, waiting for nightfall, and I've distinctly heard the sound of the player's footsteps echoing through the house. You wanna talk about hair-raising, maximum pucker factor terror? How about hearing the sound of yourself, walking towards you, in an empty house and spinning around to find nothing but darkness.

Edit

Ok, I just loaded my game and spawned in, and there was a dog standing literally next to me. Player house needs to be a no-spawn zone :|

AND a savage hanging out in there as soon I get back from my day's excursions. Am I just getting really unlucky, or is there a reason this is happening so often? Only played two or so days last night in the first of this game, and it happened nearly immediately then too.

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Re: Where's your panic room? :D

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:24 am
by Chazzed
Nenjin wrote:
Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:10 pm

In Alpha 1.0, I managed to kill two Huge Dogs and a....thing, all with one Axe over the course of one night. They came one at a time, I had light and I think my Axe was both Light and Razor Sharp...so I had all the advantages. Two or more enemies at the same time though is trouble. I imagine that's why the kitchen is so long, so you can kite enemies a bit. Most enemies are beatable if you can back up while you wind up your swing. The house prevents that, which is why fights there are so unpleasant.

(etc...)
Hi, I'm from the future.
I hope you know that modern Darkwood has most definitely been influenced by what you've said here, as well as some other posts in this subject.

Thanks for making the game fun!